Green Party co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick is adamant her party's alternative Budget is "realistic" as she's pressed over the details of sweeping proposals to overhaul the tax system and Government spending plans.
Released on Wednesday, the "Green Budget" proposes big changes, including extending free GP visits, dental care, childcare, introducing an income guarantee, among other new programmes — funded by $88 billion in new taxes and billions in additional debt.
Most workers would receive a tax cut under the party's suggested changes, but there would also be significant additional wealth and inheritance taxes.
Speaking to Q+A this morning, Swarbrick was asked about why the party wanted to spend tens of billions more if it were to be in government.
"This is what it looks like to be grown ups and to be serious about the fact that we are going to require serious investment," the Greens co-leader responded.
Coalition Govt parties take turns at mocking the plan for free GP visits and a public primary health service. (Source: 1News)
She was then questioned about the risk that new taxes could lead to capital flight, which Treasury officials have previously warned of. Swarbrick said the issue had been "accounted for" and that the plan had been independently costed.
But the co-leader conceded she wasn't across the "specific figures", adding that she "didn't think it's a constructive display if we're just focusing on those gotcha moments".
"I'm going to be completely honest with you and say that I'm going to need to come back to you on those details," Swarbrick said, to pushback from interviewer Jack Tame. He later said the question was "not a gotcha".
Swarbrick was also asked whether farmers could realistically pay the 33% inheritance tax when passing down farms between generations. Earlier this week, ACT said the plan was a "reckless attack on family farming" based on its interpretation of the figures.
"This is the point of putting this forward, so that we are able to say: 'Hey, look, if there are serious issues that people can foresee, let's deal with the evidence," she responded.
"Let's deal with the data. And I'm looking forward to getting in front of farmers and agricultural audiences to have this discussion and debate'".
When pressed further, Swarbrick said "we currently don't have good data on this stuff" and that she was interested in hearing about possible "fishhooks" of the policy.
"Let's get the data, and let's get the evidence, and see how big of an issue this actually is.
"What I'm telling you is that we currently don't have good data on this stuff, which is why we are very proud to be pushing the boat out, putting this policy on the table and saying, 'If there are issues that people have, let's have a rational discussion about that.'"
Government parties have derided the minor party's alternative Budget. The PM called it "clown show economics" and attempted to tie the party's proposals to the Greens' likely coalition partner Labour.
The Government's Budget 2025 would be revealed on Thursday.
'There may potentially be fish hooks' - Swarbrick
Speaking on Q+A, the Green co-leader touted the tax cut benefits of the plan.
"91% of New Zealanders will pay less income tax, and on the top 3% of the wealthiest people in this country will pay that wealth tax," Swarbrick said. Asked why the party was proposing billions in more spending, she said it was about "serious investment".
"This is what it looks like to be grown ups and to be serious about the fact that we are going to require serious investment in order to deal with the $200 billion-odd deficit that we have in our infrastructure," she said.
"Right now, we know from Statistics New Zealand data that 191 New Zealanders are leaving this country every single day. But more concerning than that, two-thirds of them are between the ages of 18 to 45. That is our working age population.
"If our Minister of Finance wants to say that the aging population is the thing that's keeping her up at night, well we need to invest in making sure that we are keeping New Zealanders here and building a country that is worth fighting for, and that's why we're stoked to put a positive vision for it."
Speaking to Q+A, Swarbrick was also asked about how the ambitious housing and infrastructure goals stacked up, including building 35,000 new public homes in six years.
When pressed on delivery capability, Swarbrick said building state capacity and avoiding public-private partnerships would help to achieve savings.
Additionally, the party wanted to deliver light rail lines in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch for $12 billion.
For Auckland, the Greens have said they want a surface rail option, which the previous government costed at $9 billion in a 2021 business case. Labour's tunnelled light rail plan in Auckland was officially costed at nearly $15 billion.
Swarbrick said her party's overall alternative Budget was realistic "if we invest the requisite resources to actually do these things and we commit to the vision.
"That's not to say that, as I've just alluded to earlier, there may potentially be fish hooks or otherwise, but the reality is that what we have produced with this Green Budget is something with the resources of 15 Green MPs in opposition.
"We don't have all of those boffins available to us at Treasury or otherwise, and we're more than happy to have debates on the details."
For the full interview, watch the video above
Q+A with Jack Tame is made with the support of New Zealand On Air
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